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> ScrewAttack's Ryu Hayabusa vs Hiryu Death Battle, Let the battle begin.
Strider Ichiban
 Posted: Jul 8 2013, 05:29 AM
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Been looking for some information regarding this after hearing about it from Sombra.
Haven't been able to find too much info myself as yet, but I did manage to find this little gem.

http://www.screwattack.com/news/kazs-death...s-strider-hiryu

One can only hope that whoever does the official research on Hiryu for this battle stays well clear of this article. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Strider Ichiban: Jul 9 2013, 01:28 AM
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Strider Sombra
 Posted: Jul 10 2013, 01:40 AM
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Oh god, I came across that article too, even before I knew of Death Battle. His "research" is really just...I mean, he barely bothered with the Cypher at all (and even apparently somehow got it mixed up with Hien's...) and even funnier got the sickle confused with the Magnetic Boots...

Also one I really laughed..."Hiryu also can not see in the dark too well, so if in a dark area, Ryu destroys." That came out of nowhere...from where did he got that? Reminds me of another guy I met who claimed Hiryu doesn't like killing humans (just robots, and knocks people down in MvC3 ph34r.gif ).

It's very unlikely this random blogger is gonna be considered at all, thankfully, as the official discussion thread shows, they apparently are measuring Manga Hiryu into the equation, and even got around a way to use the unstranslated chapters. So I'm hopeful they will do him justice, and who knows...maybe our man may have a chance wink.gif

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Strider Ichiban
 Posted: Jul 10 2013, 03:03 AM
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He also somehow failed to mention any of his options. huh.gif
Of course Ryu got practically all of his weapons mentioned, but how in the world could he miss something like that?!
I don't know...

Anyway, I've been checking out some videos on YouTube showing off some of Ryu's games and his abilities through cutscenes etc. This narrative is useful as it shows him up to be rather fallible and otherwise lacking in many places.
You would think having so many games would work to his advantage but in many of them he's not able to save people from getting kidnapped, getting kidnapped himself multiple times by others who were easily able to surprise him using stealth and other means, and all sorts of other little things. He almost dies by gunfire that he failed to notice and that he's also supposed to be able to outrun, and he's already been - chopped in half before!
He's certainly not the unstoppable badass Hiryu was in his arcade romps.

Personally, I think the manga could only hurt Hiryu for the same reason. Sure he has some awesome feats in there but he also needed to look like he can be hurt for the sake of drama.
And we shouldn't kid ourselves, ScrewAttack's Death Battles are more about drama than accuracy.
I mean, Hiryu has a sword that emits plasma that can cut through anything that he wields around like it was made of paper... For the sake of realism, Hiryu would have to miss with every single attack for the duration of the fight which is ridiculous, or not even use his sword at all until right at the end.
It could be a fight where Hiryu spends most of his time dodging arrows and other long range attacks with his acrobatics etc before finally closing the distance and using his specialty of a one slash kill that passes through Ryu's sword in the process... Who knows.
Then again if they decide to use his nerfed Marvel Vs Capcom appearances, Ryu might somehow just be able to block Hiryu's cypher assaults with his bare hands! How's that for accuracy?

As for some arguments I've seen put forward for Ryu, how about these?
Ryu uses magic. Apparently in his world magic is real and this is "naturally better" than advanced futuristic technology.
He can stop time... (spooky)
He's faster than Hiryu. (cough)
He can blink or teleport. (who can't these days?)
He can even survive being cut in two! Yeah, like Hiryu would just stop there. smile.gif

The problem with the whole idea of this fight though for me is that it goes against the whole concept of Hiryu's creation and design. Striders are basically what 'Super-Ninjas' like Ryu became in the future. They are an evolution of the concept where the stereotypical magic casting ninja is now obsolete. So how could Hiryu really stand to loose against Ryu? It would be like spitting in the face of progress.
This battle time might be much better spent with Hiryu trying to help Ryu find a suitable retirement home instead. laugh.gif In any case I think they would make much better friends than enemies. www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIjsymGYo7U

This post has been edited by Strider Ichiban: Jul 10 2013, 05:14 PM
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Strider Sombra
 Posted: Jul 10 2013, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE (Strider Ichiban @ Jul 10 2013, 02:01 AM)
He also somehow failed to mention any of his options. huh.gif 
Of course Ryu got practically of his weapons mentioned, but how in the world could he miss something like that?!

Right, he also missed those. Rather incredible, given most people who advocate for him tends to throw "BIG TIGER BOT!! LEGION! OUROBOROS!" around like crazy...

I've wanted to check out Ryu in action for a while, since most of the time people seem to sell him as some crazy ass mofo. I've read he even has difficulty piercing armored stuff (QTE and button mashing, if I'm right), which is often described as if he does it effortlessly.

QUOTE

And we shouldn't kid ourselves, ScrewAttack's Death Battles are more about drama than accuracy.


It's completely true, I've seen a few times that the team behind DB seems to stress out that the animations are just "dramatizations" done for entertainment purpose and don't influence the research or result. So I wasn't really expecting a realistic bout at all, specially since they are almost guaranteed to use MvC sprites, and probably without any custom ones (A shame, seeing Hiryu slash Ryu apart bare-handed like in the Manga would be a great ending...).

QUOTE
Who knows. Then again if they decide to use his nerfed Marvel Vs Capcom appearances, Ryu might somehow just be able to block Hiryu's cypher assaults with his bare hands! How's that for accuracy?


I just hope they don't go overboard with that. Probably the Options will end up being pretty influenced by their function in them, but there's stuff that has no place here, like Hiryu's low stamina/life.

QUOTE
As for some arguments I've seen put forward for Ryu, how about these?
Ryu uses magic. Apparently in his world, magic is real and this is "naturally better" than advanced futuristic technology.
He can stop time... (spooky)
He's faster than Hiryu. (cough)
He can blink or teleport. (who can't these days?)
He can even survive being cut in two! Yeah, like Hiryu would stop there. smile.gif


You forgot one of my favorites: "Ryu has a gajillion weapons, Hiryu can't stand a chance against that". I always wonder if they think Ryu would wield everything at the same time or Hiryu would let him sort through his armory when he inevitably needs to switch weapons biggrin.gif More is not better, afterall.

Now, I'm also wondering if they'll consider the Tricks too? I mean, with that Hiryu gets fire/electric projectiles, a long-distance teleport, ways to heal himself, a full-screen attack and...a bigger jump. They aren't really used most of the time, but since Ryu tends to get everything he uses in all his games + Dead or Alive...

QUOTE
The problem with the whole idea of this fight though for me is that it goes against the whole concept of Hiryu's design. Striders are basically what 'Super-Ninjas' like Ryu became. They are an evolution of the concept where in the future the stereotypical magic wielding ninja is now obsolete. So how could Hiryu really stand to loose? It would be like spitting in the face of progress.


I certainly agree with that (though I only know of Ryu from his old glorydays, so not the best judge here...). They don't always favor the more relevant/popular choice in these battles (Kratos lost to Spawn, for one), so maybe they do their homework and we get to see Hiryu win. For what's worth, I'm looking forward for how this whole thing turns out either way.


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Strider Sombra
 Posted: Jul 25 2013, 02:29 AM
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if anyone is interested in this topic still, the official blog for the series released the research team's prediction for the upcoming battle. Be forewarned, it's quite a long read:

Here it is.

Tl, dr version: Hiryu got 5 out of 7 reseachers backing him as the victor, thought pretty much everyone agrees it's extremelly close and either ninja can feasible get the victory at the end.

In general they did a nice job with the research, in spite of the big screw-up in Hiryu's backstory (somehow getting that Hiryu fought Matic's plots 3 times (!?), which even if they mistakenly assumed the NES was a sequel to the manga doesn't quite add up...). They actually included the Tricks as I wanted and didn't based too much of his skills in the MvC incarnation (and a nice touch they tried to back most of them with the Arcade games' power-ups).

And hope you can pardon this little rant of mine (even though I doubt anyone from the blog would check this forum) is this comment:

QUOTE
"where he outran the targeting systems for guns using “shadow tag bullets”(which were supposed to be comparable to anti-aircraft weaponry).
[..]
Unfortunately this “shadow tag” bullet feat hasn’t yet been confirmed to exist (With some translators we contacted saying they were never actually mentioned in the Jp manga)."


I'm presuming those translator missed it (either didn't looked close or missed them due to low-quality of the scans), so I went back to my old translation notes to pull it out:

Manga chapter 5, page 158, 2nd panel (Japanese reading order):
(LSCM is down, so I had attached the page in question below)
Attached ImageAttached Image

Just after seeing the Shadowtag Bullets in action,
Hiryu's thoughts transcribed: "レーダーと連動する対空砲火は見たことあるが"
Roughly means: "It appears to be anti-aircraft fire working together with a radar"

"対空砲火" is "anti-aircraft fire", or more literally: "anti-aircraft gun fire", as this Japanese wikipedia article states, the first three mean just that, and the last Kanji is "fire". Here's a side-to-side comparation to be sure I'm not seeing it wrong or anything:
Attached Image

I may be missing something, but AFAIK it appears to be correct. Just wanted to take that off my chest.

Attached 3 File(s)

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LousyTactician
 Posted: Jul 27 2013, 01:17 AM
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QUOTE (Strider Sombra @ Jul 10 2013, 03:56 AM)

And we shouldn't kid ourselves, ScrewAttack's Death Battles are more about drama than accuracy


Hey! DEATH BATTLE might try to throw in flashy sprite animations, funny voice acting, and some comedic flare, but they, as well as all of us (The Official DEATH BATTLE Fan Blog), take this stuff quite seriously.

QUOTE (Strider Sombra @ Jul 25 2013, 12:27 AM)

(even though I doubt anyone from the blog would check this forum)


You would be surprised at the amount of places on the internet I peruse through. It's fascinating to go to random fan forums, and see what each side's thoughts are about the upcoming fight. I've checked both the Ninja Fortress and Techmo forums, yet oddly enough saw no discussion about the fight among Ninja Gaiden fans.

QUOTE (Strider Sombra @ Jul 25 2013, 12:27 AM)

In general they did a nice job with the research, in spite of the big screw-up in Hiryu's backstory (somehow getting that Hiryu fought Matic's plots 3 times (!?), which even if they mistakenly assumed the NES was a sequel to the manga doesn't quite add up...). They actually included the Tricks as I wanted and didn't based too much of his skills in the MvC incarnation (and a nice touch they tried to back most of them with the Arcade games' power-ups).


To clarify something, we are well aware of the different Strider canons, and didn't intend to suggest that Manga Strider, NES Strider, Coin-Op Strider, or the like the are the same iteration. I was even going to make a joke about how both Ryu and Hiryu have utterly messed up canons, but it didn't make it in.

Though it probably would have been best if we used the background description from my notes, which specifies each separate incarnation. But in the end, another member put their description in the prediction blog's draft first, and I only included an altered part of my ending backstory, which I felt was fine.

On that end I can be blamed for the confusion. I should have realized an issue could arise over the given backstory when I was posting the blog. However, the researcher who wrote the background understands the different canons, he simply composited the different incarnations together, listing off the basic story achievements of each one for the sake of brevity, since this is a battle using composites of both characters after all.

If it makes you feel at all better, Strider's background in my original notes goes as such...

"The early life of Strider Hiryu doesn’t matter. Mostly because almost nothing is known about it. What is known is he was an orphaned kid put through the Strider training program at a young age, along with his sister, and two others he would become friends with, Sheena and Kain. There he showed exceptional talent, gained superhuman abilities, mastered the art of stealth, assassination, and espionage, and became the youngest person ever to complete the grueling training and become an A-ranked Strider. Eventually he was tasked with the mission of killing his sister, who had fallen under the influence of a mind-control device, and abandoned the Strider organization shortly after successfully defeating her.

Until 2 years later when his friend Kain, the Ken to Hiryu’s Ryu, was captured, and the Strider’s Vice Director, Matic, forced Hiryu to take on one last mission. Kain’s execution. Hiryu instead broke the rule that all Striders captured by an enemy group are to be killed, rescued Kain and reunited with Sheena instead. What followed was a long journey to uncover a conspiracy between Matic and Enterprise, an enemy corporation, and put an end to the creation of the mind-control devices that influenced Hiryu’s sister, as well as the Zain terminals that controlled them.

According to the original manga at least. The arcade game and its sequel, Strider 2, followed a completely different, much more simplistic story where Strider was tasked with destroying an evil wizard dictator named, Meio, and prevent him from burning all life on Earth to cinders. If that wasn’t enough the NES game also follows a slightly altered version of the original manga’s plot. Only a video game franchise could have two games and a manga with such different plots. Regardless of what canon you follow, Strider Hiryu is the futuristic, superhuman, ninja you go to when things get heated. With his varied arsenal of gadgets, he has destroyed futuristic warships, cut through armies worth of soldiers, robots, dinosaurs, other Striders, and just about every enemy imaginable. Outside of combat he is peaceful and kind (more so in the Strider manga), but in battle he has complete focus, ready kill without hesitation."


I have a Google Document containing this backstory, word for word, that hasn't been edited since June 24th, if you don't believe that I wrote this before the prediction blog was posted. Although all I do have to prove this claim are these 3 images, as I have no intention of giving non-researchers access to one of my DEATH BATTLE research Google Docs (sorry), so I guess you'll just have to take my word for it.

Anyway, it's nice to know that the whole 2 of you are interested in this fight, and I'm glad you think we did good research.

This post has been edited by LousyTactician: Jul 27 2013, 02:05 AM
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Strider Sombra
 Posted: Jul 27 2013, 03:23 AM
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Oh, hello there LousyTactician! Thanks to come by, I'm glad to be proven wrong, actually. IMO, it shows its a very complete research you have done biggrin.gif

QUOTE (LousyTactician @ Jul 27 2013, 12:15 AM)

To clarify something, we are well aware of the different Strider canons, and didn't intend to suggest that Manga Strider, NES Strider, Coin-Op Strider, or the like the are the same iteration. I was even going to make a joke about how both Ryu and Hiryu have utterly messed up canons, but it didn't make it in.


Happy to know smile.gif . I was presuming the mix-up simply because that was the only way I thought someone would think Matic was fought twice (let alone a third time). The 2nd paragraph is the one that's very confusing: it throws the ZAIN and "Matic's plans" as two separate mission split by a retirement attempt and includes Matic in the past mission with Mariya (his involvement was unknown at the time, as you know). I'm guessing he meant to put "Meio's plans" in there, in reference to the original Arcade game's plot, more than likely.

But outside of that, I'm very pleased with the rest and the amount of details (as I said before, taking the power-ups into account for certain skills was a great touch I loved).

QUOTE
Though it probably would have been best if we used the background description from my notes, which specifies each separate incarnation. But in the end, another member put their description in the prediction blog's draft first, and I only included an altered part of my ending backstory, which I felt was fine.


It is better, IMO. Mind, the original is not bad for what its meant to be (a short summary of everything he did regardless of "canon"), it's just a bit inacurate.

And you don't have to worry about me atleast, I don't really have any reason to doubt you. The alternative of lying to impress me is strangely flattering, though tongue.gif

I've seen the video is slated for August 2nd, just a day after my birthday ph34r.gif . Awaiting to see if Hiryu's speed and one-weapon mastery > Ryu's overwhelming laundry list of weapons and techniques.


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Scion238
 Posted: Jul 27 2013, 04:04 PM
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LousyTactician, welcome to the Citadel!

QUOTE (LousyTactician @ Jul 27 2013, 12:15 AM)
Hey! DEATH BATTLE might try to throw in flashy sprite animations, funny voice acting, and some comedic flare, but they, as well as all of us (The Official DEATH BATTLE Fan Blog), take this stuff quite seriously.

Indeed. I particularly liked the Akuma/Shang Tsung fight, myself.



Your bringing that level of attentiveness to the Strider series is a good thing, and we can only hope that Double Helix and Capcom are both doing the same for their reboot.

QUOTE
Anyway, it's nice to know that the whole 2 of you are interested in this fight, and I'm glad you think we did good research.

Such is life on the discussion board of an obscure franchise. At least you know I (and a few others besides these two) are interested in the outcome. wink.gif

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 Posted: Jul 27 2013, 07:20 PM
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Not to say my welcome is really needed, but hey there, LousyTactician!

This post has been edited by Notymenow: Jul 27 2013, 07:22 PM

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Kaijin
 Posted: Jul 28 2013, 10:15 PM
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Actually, I had pointed out that the name "Shadowtag Bullets" wasn't used anywhere in the manga. Not that they didn't exist in the manga, just that the name itself wasn't presented until later game media. I searched through everything I have yet to translate and never found anything that actually named the weapons the soldiers were carrying unless the name came about from some weird translation of the kanji in the manga.
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Strider Sombra
 Posted: Jul 29 2013, 01:34 AM
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QUOTE (Kaijin @ Jul 28 2013, 09:13 PM)
I searched through everything I have yet to translate and never found anything that actually named the weapons the soldiers were carrying unless the name came about from some weird translation of the Kanji in the manga.


I'm actually counting up 3 instances where "Shadowtag Bullets"/Kagefumidan (影踏み弾) comes up, using the same exact kanji used later in the Game+Book and Mega Drive manual for the Russian machinegun enemy:

Chapter 5, pg 158, 1st panel - right after the machinegun shreds the rebels, the soldier says: すげえだろ対人自動追尾の「影踏み弾」てえんだ (very roughly "The personal auto-tracking "Shadowtag Bullets" is incredible").

Chapter 5, pg 171, 1st panel - following the chaos after Hiryu and Kain blow stuff up, Yuri decides to take matters into his hands, and shouts「影踏み弾」を用意しろ!! ("Prepare the "Shadowtag Bullets"!!"). Next we see him, he's leading a whole team of goons with the machinegun.

Chapter 6, pg 205, 1st panel - Matic and two guys with the machinegun corners Hiryu, and Matic says その体では影踏み弾をかわすことはできまい... ("In your condition, you will not be able to avoid the Shadowtag Bullets..."). He later orders the goons to shoot him.

Two of the three are even in quotation marks, and those same Kanji are used later in the GB and MD manual (so it was not an invention of a later source, the Kanji came from the Manga/original draft). The Game+Book even uses the same description the soldier uses in the first example:

対人自動追尾兵器「影踏み弾」というマシンガンを装備した兵士.
Soldiers equipped with the machine gun and personal auto-tracking weapon “Shadowtag Bullets”.

It may be referring to the bullets instead of the gun itself, but regardless the weapon in general is referred to by that name in both versions of the story.

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Kaijin
 Posted: Jul 29 2013, 08:04 PM
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Okay, that's where the confusion came in. The "Shadow Tag" part is a very weird translation of those kanji. Then again, this isn't the first instance of something in the game translations using some weird or fuzzy translation. It should be something more along the lines of "Shadow Stepping Bullets."
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Strider Sombra
 Posted: Jul 29 2013, 11:07 PM
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It's not actually official, it's my personal translation (the MD manual drops most of the info in the original, and the GB was never officially translated)...and while I do admit it's not probably the best, I really liked it above most alternatives.

In any case, the translation is not as unusual/weird and comes up a few times, since it's used when referring to the children's game known as Kagefumi / Kagefumi Oni (a tag-like game where one has to step on the other's shadow to freeze him/her), which was the main reason I went with it instead of more sensible but not as nice IMO "Shadow Step" or "Shadow Tread". It seemed like a perfect match for a weapon that can track your every move and "tag" you.

Kagefumi is also translated this way in a Pokemon technique (Shadow Tag), an Urusei Yatsura theme (Shadow Tag Waltz), and is how the term was translated in an interview with the director of the game "Lost in Shadows" (who used the original tag game as reference for his videogame), among others.

I actually looked around and, since I found it was an accepted translation, went with it.

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 Posted: Jul 30 2013, 01:38 AM
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I dig...

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Strider Ichiban
 Posted: Jul 30 2013, 07:55 AM
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Death Battle preview videos are up over on ScrewAttack.


It just goes over a portion of each fighters skills and shows what they'll look like in the battle. You guessed it, Hiryu uses Marvel vs. Capcom sprites.

Strider Hiryu:
http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals...r-hiryu-preview

Ryu Hayabusa:
http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals...ayabusa-preview

Research seems a little underwhelming and humorous on Hiryu's side, even for their preview... Compared with Ryu's anyway.
Where's Hiryu's height and weight come from? I didn't know that information was officially avaliable. Is this just a Death Battle thing?
His age: 2021?! I'm sure they would know...
Also, 2 million degrees Celsius now equals 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit apparently.

This post has been edited by Strider Ichiban: Jul 30 2013, 11:13 AM
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